Sermon the First

Over the next few posts I’m going to lay some foundations.  These are things I think are important for the newly Red-Pilled Man to understand.  Some of them are not nice.  There are no quick fixes for any of them.  Gimmicks will work for a short time, or give you a glimmer of hope, but I’m not interested in that.  I want you to get what you want, long term.  So here’s the first sermon:

Remember what happened the first time you went off to college, or deployed, or visited Grandma over the summer?  You came back home and things were…..different.

There was a new stoplight at that intersection. Johnny’s mom got a new car.  Sarah fucked Billy and now her car’s outside his apartment every night.  Old Man Yi got killed in a robbery and his son Little Yi is running the liquor store.

For many of us, the first time we return home from an extended absence is the first realization that people actually have separate lives.  Instead of seeing only your future stretching out in front of you, an awareness creeps in of thousands of other futures moving forward, all at the same pace.  They intertwine, intersect, or swerve away from your future, never to be seen again.  Stuff happened while you were gone.  It still does.

Keep that in mind.  If you’re naturally a bit narcissistic, or have a tendency toward solipsism, it’s easy to forget.

“But…but…but Dogsquat!  I’m not a narcissist!” you retort.

Yeah, we all are to some degree.  A little narcissism is a good thing.  Without it, you could never show up to a job interview, or stand up to a bully, or argue with a stranger over the internet about how non-narcissistic you are.

I think this facet of humanity is where a lot of guys get into trouble with women.

Say you’re pining over a girl – she’s beautiful and cool and into the same weird shit you are – you spend a lot of time thinking about her.  You imagine a future together or wonder what she’s like in bed.

Well, she ain’t doing that.  Her life is separate from yours.  Her thread may cross yours a few times in the Marvelous Rug Of Life, but it’s not twined intimately with your thread, no matter how much you’d like it to be.  For the most part, people aren’t thinking about you when you’re not right in front of them.

If you pin your hopes for happiness or booty or whatever on some chick, you’re going to let all kinds of bizarre thinking creep in.

That girl you met at the bar?  Not thinking about you right now.

That cute chick that sits next to you in Cell Biology?  Not thinking about you right now.

The ex you’d like to get back together with?  Yup, you guessed it – not thinking about you right now, either.

Why am I repeating this depressing fact of life so many times?

Because it’s superfuckingimportant.

One of the fundamental principles of Game is called Outcome Independence.  It is not talked about often, but it’s one of the most powerful tools you posses.  If your happiness is truly independent from the outcome of an interaction with a woman, you’re halfway to where you want to be.  You won’t fall for little shit tests, appear too desperate, or sink into mini-depressions when she doesn’t text/doesn’t come over/won’t go home with you.  You might not even notice the little landmines girls lay in your path, because you’re skipping right past them.

If you pursue this principle, along with a few other things, you may find desirable women chasing you.

And Gents – it is impossible to be Outcome Independent if you’re pining away over a girl who isn’t thinking about your ass anyway.    There are many ways to discipline the mind in this regard.  Sometime down the road I’ll share mine.

Until then, here’s an easy fix:

Every time you think about a specific girl when she’s not there, or how much you’d like a girl in your life, do 20 push-ups.   Seriously – walk away from the group and pound ’em out.  If you’re in bed and your mind drifts, roll onto the floor and beat your face 20 times.  Studying?  Working?  No excuse – bash ’em out ASAP.

There are times, of course, when a girl is thinking about you.  Until you fully internalize (I mean live it, not fake it) this principle, odds are it’s not the girl you want thinking about you,  or it is the girl you want, but she’s not thinking anything good.

So start pushing, Gents.

Feel free to expand on Outcome Independence in the comments if you have tips or anecdotes to share.

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42 thoughts on “Sermon the First

  1. DS – great post – here’s my take on the importance of OI

    Quick background – late 40s, divorced for 5 years after being married 18 years.

    During my divorce, like so many, I did what I could to save the marriage – went the uber Nice Guy route, etc (Barf, puke, gag) b/c I felt my liiiiiife and haaaaaappiness were dependent on her.

    One day a friend recommended the book “Reinventing yourself” by Steve Chapman – serious eyeopener – he talks a lot about victims and owners – owners are in control over their lives – victims are dependent on others for their haaaaaappiness.

    Head:Bang:Clue x four

    Who the hell wants to be a damn victim? Victimhood sucks.

    Being OI means for me, that I act and live for MY happiness – and that the joy I get from whatever is absolutely NOT dependent on how someone else reacts – especially an ex. Now, if I go for a drink with a woman and she doesn’t dig me, so the fuck what? I was out for a drink and a conversation with a pretty girl – where’s the downside in that?

    One added benefit – at least for me. When I adhere to OI, A) I “think” more and “feel” less and more importantly B) I seriously reduce the amount of clownish and attention-seeking behavior which repulses women b/c I realize MY happiness is independent of some chick’s mercurial moods and I absolutely do not want or need her approval or validation.

    Damn – that was good to write out.

    Thanks, DS…

  2. OI goes along with the concept that the person with the least “interest” in any relationship has the upper hand. In the short term, of course, this makes perfect sense. If you are early in the dating process, getting “in too deep” will tip your hand and put her in the driver’s seat.

    Long term though, I’m not sure how this plays out. Surely I can keep from having my entire life tied up with my mate, but the truth is we have been living together for a couple years now, and there is no doubt that at this point my happiness IS tied up in her to an extent. I don’t see how any relationship can be successful long term without this to some degree since it is this “buy in” that is part of the foundation.

    How exactly does one have OI when they will be sharing a bed with that same women later in the evening? And the next day? And the next?…

    Forming an LTR is in some ways putting your happiness in another person’s hands. If you don’t give them that, then to me you haven’t gone “full in”. And, if you aren’t full in, you won’t have a relationship for long.

    So how does this work in a LTR/Marriage. 10 years down the road, am I still supposed to be keeping my happiness from her?

    • 10 years down the road, am I still supposed to be keeping my happiness from her?

      No. She would be devastated if you kept your happiness from her. I think the difference is that she should not be the only, or even the main source of your happiness. If something happened between the two of you and she left, yeah, it would hurt and you would be unhappy for a bit, but there should be something else in your life that is independent from her and kids can absolutely be it (There can be other things as well, that is up to you). She is part of your life and adds to your happiness, but in a family situation, the family is often the OI situation. Even though she is part of the family, she is not what the family revolves around. She is not the most important part of it. Your happiness might be tied up in the family as a unit. If she is no longer part of that unit, while it will hurt, it will not destroy your happiness with the rest of the unit. It should be abundantly clear to her that while you love her, your life and the life of the family is not dependent on her. She is replaceable, only as things are right now, you have no desire to replace her. If something should change, you have options.

      • That is such a harsh and depressing outlook. But having gone through a divorce I already know its true.

        It really is a sad state of humanity that the only way we can hope to keep someone with us is to prove we don’t need them. Sure, I get that it feels good knowing she stays because she wants to, but putting it in terms of “replaceable” is just so freaking rough. I’m basically a logical thinker, but even *I* flinch at that statement.

        So the answer is keep interests outside the house, relationship, and family. I made that mistake early on in my marriage by giving up music entirely to “be at home” more. I really didn’t do it for my ex-wife though, I truly thought that I was stealing from my children when I wasn’t around. But, the truth is it was a massive shit test from my ex-wife that I totally failed, and to be honest the marriage really started tanking within 2 years after. It would have been sooner, but we moved to a new house and I started a new job, which kept things “interesting” enough to stave off the inevitable for a bit.

        It’s funny. Since I’ve started feeling better about myself, I’ve also started being interested in things I used to do. I didn’t see any of it as affecting my relationship, but the fact is they really do play a part. I will not allow myself to become so invested (for lack of a better word, perhaps “wrapped up in” is better?) in a single person that everything hinges on them being around. Logically I know I could find another woman to share my life with if necessary, but to me it doesn’t feel right to use that as a way to get the upper hand in the relationship so to speak. Instead, I’ll just consider it an option I always have if necessary. \

        I’m just not wired right for using dread as a control tactic. If it gets to the point that dread is the only way, I’d rather call it quits and move on.

        • This stuff, for some reason, is second nature to me, so I don’t see it as being harsh at all. It simply is. I am going to use myself here at it is far easier for me to explain it that way. I am not the center of my husbands world and I respect him for that. I shouldn’t be the center of it, because he has far more important things to worry about and take care of. I believe the family can be your center, but that your girl cannot. She will eventually resent you and disrespect you for it. If you stayed home for your children in your first marriage and it didn’t work for you, then I would guess that your ex actually believed that you were doing it for her and not truly for your children.

          Logically I know I could find another woman to share my life with if necessary, but to me it doesn’t feel right to use that as a way to get the upper hand in the relationship so to speak. Instead, I’ll just consider it an option I always have if necessary.

          You don’t have to use it. Just don’t hide from it and don’t try to hide it from her. Don’t try to protect her from this fact. There is no reason to as she will respect you more for it anyway. Also, you don’t have to instill dread. Again, just don’t hide the fact from her that you have options. Talk to other women, if they flirt with you, fine. Don’t end the conversation, rather go with it. You don’t have to flirt back for your SO to be perfectly aware of what is going on. This is not instilling dread. Rather it is simply what happens when other women find you attractive. It is part of life. My husband gets hit on all the time and I think it’s great. It’s harmless, it makes him feel very good and I know that I have a great man (preselection). This is not instilling dread. It is me simply knowing the truth. If I chose to do something incredibly stupid, while my husband would be hurt, I could be replaced by the end of the day. I do not dread this outcome, nor do I dwell on it. It is a truth I am aware of and that’s it. If you don’t blatantly rub it in your SO’s face, she will likely feel the same. If you try to hide the fact that other women may find you desirable, she may not respect you as much as unconsciously, she would see that as a weakness and bending too much to her will.

          • Thanks again! You have a way of communicating across gender lines that is right up there with DogSquat’s.

          • “If you stayed home for your children in your first marriage and it didn’t work for you, then I would guess that your ex actually believed that you were doing it for her and not truly for your children.”

            At that point, we were already starting to fall apart (about 4-5 years in, no surprise…) and I was spending a lot of weekends out gigging. She was unhappy, and decided it was because I was away so much. (I doubt she really felt THAT was our issue, but she figured I was out having fun while she was miserable at home.) When she brought it up, we fought, and she brought up the kids. My son was a baby, and she went the route of how unfair it was that she was home taking care of him while I was out, (even though she was a SAHM at the time…) and that if I was never around it wasn’t fair to them, etc. I quit gigging and started looking for a new job to replace the lost income. (not that I was making a mint, but it was income all the same.) Within a year I found a new position, and we moved to the other side of the city to be closer to it. We were OK there for a couple years as the newness of everything kept us preoccupied. By the time my son started school and my ex went back to work part time, we were slipping fast. For the most part, I completely gave up my own agency once I decided to put the family first (because “the family” included her) and not keeping something for myself. By the time we separated, I literally had NO interests outside the home, and it felt like my entire life was wrecked.

            So although it was the children that sold me on giving up my interests, it was at her ‘suggestion’ that I did it, so I’m sure at the time she did believe as you say. And I did go full on beta wimp afterwards. I figured it was my place to give up everything for them, and holding on to my own interests was being immature and irresponsible. Giving up music was the pebble that started my beta avalanche.

    • @Ted

      It’s not about keeping happiness from her – not in the least. In fact, in my experience, one of the things men do which turns women on the most, is being excited and happy with their lives and sharing that happiness with them.

      But this is NOT the same as YOUR happiness being dependent on her. OI, at least to me, means being in control of your own life and not living thru someone else, much less having my self-worth dependent on their views of me – and an added benefit of this, is you remove the tendency to put a woman on a pedastel and grovel at her feet looking for crumbs of happiness to be thrown your way. (Ack – bad memories flooding in).

      • Yeah I didn’t clearly state what I was getting at, but Stingray picked it up…

        What I’m saying is that to some extent, I cannot be truly outcome independent with my SO simply because her leaving would impact my life at this point. However, the key is to not allow that to stop me from seeing that as an option, if it becomes necessary. I certainly wouldn’t keep from sharing my happiness with her, but I was trying to describe how happiness, at least for me, is intertwined with my relationship, which I think is normal.

        But your points in the last paragraph are dead on. I get this logically, but being as I don’t deal with my emotions much, I’m finding it difficult to “feel” better about this.

    • People have explained it to you better in later comments, but I thought something should be emphasized:

      OI is not dread.

      If my girl left me tomorrow, I’d be bummed. I have an awesome life, though, and I’d find another girl sooner or later. My SO is not the fount of my happiness, although she does add to it quite a bit.

      Flip it around and look at this issue from the woman’s point of view:

      What woman in their right mind wants a man who places the his entire identity and happiness on her shoulders? That is an extremely heavy burden. Good women are willing to carry it for a time, but no one will do it forever.

      • Still OI within a LTR and certainly a marriage can only be taken so far before it reaches either dread or nuclear option. You simply cannot be 100% OI once you commit and certainly not once you live together. Hell, even when I lived with other guys as a roommate complete OI from them wasn’t possible just because the act of living with someone makes you dependent on them.

        “What woman in their right mind wants a man who places the his entire identity and happiness on her shoulders? That is an extremely heavy burden. Good women are willing to carry it for a time, but no one will do it forever.”

        I absolutely get this. However I would counter that plenty of women seem to assume that it is their man’s responsibility to keep them happy, and if not queue up the “I’m not haaaaaaaaaaaappy” speech. Of course it is no less healthy for a woman to do to a man than it is the other way around. Yet somehow men seem to be the ones most often punished for this “crime”.

        And in the end this all still boils down to not being able to truly and fully depend on your mate to be there for you. It is always believing that she is replaceable, because allowing her to believe otherwise diminishes her desire to be with me. So we are back to proving I don’t need her so she will want to stay.

        I’ll just add this to my list of reasons people suck.

        • And in the end this all still boils down to not being able to truly and fully depend on your mate to be there for you.

          Ted, I get the sense that you have a bit of a morbid personality. 😉 You don’t have to prove anything. Live your life as you wish to live it. Don’t make her your everything. You can never, ever truly and fully depend on another person even when they are 100% faithful because life happens. She could step out the door today and be in some horrible accident and she will no longer be there for you. And, if you chose to, you could replace her after the fact. Is this a bit depressing? Maybe, but that does not make it not so. This does not mean, that when you need her she will not be there for you, but do you really wish to burden your girl with having to be there for you every moment of every day or do you wish to prove to her that you are a man who can stand on his own two feet most of the time? Think of her position as her Condition Yellow (this is brilliant, DogSquat). She is prepared to stand up and be there for you to depend on when you need her, but it is not something that she should have to do at all times. This is how a woman supports her man. She holds him up with her presence, with her faith, and she gives herself to him for him to care for. She is there to hold him during the worst of times and at the other times she stands by ready to follow you. But if you will not lead, she will not follow.

        • Ted, check gettingbetter.com. And by check I mean, read the whole BPD section first and then the rest. There are more elements in play here than just male and female behavior. Now I think you might have a BPD at home, not just a woman.

            • Ted needs intimacy and support she doesnt seem to provide. He tries harder, while playing a waif. This is not just male / female interaction.

              • I am not sure that is the case, though. He has said before that they are really not having any problems, he is just trying to figure out what to do to prevent them from occurring, or if the do occur what to do to stop them.

                Sorry to speak for you, Ted. Please correct me if I am wrong.

                • Lol hang on a sec…

                  First of all, I consider myself a realist. But when it comes to people and social stuff I am definitely in the “glass half empty” camp. I have been told many times that i am just too serious…

                  I really, truly suck at social stuff, and frankly I have no real intention at getting better. I don’t like people enough to do more than fake it well when required. Much of “game” including OI is social stuff. It makes no logical sense to me that not caring about the outcome of interaction with my mate would actually make her more attracted to me. It makes no sense that showing I have options makes me more attractive to her as well. Its as if the less “secure” she feels the harder she will cling. So I find myself having to behave illogically (to me) in order to get the results I want. I get it, but I still don’t like it one bit.

                  Second, Stingray is correct that I am not having issues with my relationship. In fact, right now things are pretty damn good. I’m just trying to really understand as much as possible to keep it that way. But the reason I’m concentrating on personal growth more than game is because much of this just confuses me. I dislike playing games, and a lot of social interaction is based on game playing of a sort. I prefer people just talk to me straight so I’m not left trying to figure out thier motivations.

                  Lastly, a lot of what I post is hypothetical although I may not clearly state it. If my SO was acting similarly to some of my posts I would be running for the hills. Compared to some of the horror stories I see in the ‘sphere, she is a cakewalk. I would say the biggest issue I see is she is rather independent and pushes my resolve from time to time. As I assert myself in small ways though she seems to be content with following my lead.

                  So it isn’t nearly that bad. I have no complaints in regards to her support or nurturing, and our sex life is great. I just don’t feel like I have a clue of how to interact with her sometimes and I don’t see her the same as I did pre-red pill.

                  Sometimes it bums me out.

        • “What woman in their right mind wants a man who places the his entire identity and happiness on her shoulders? That is an extremely heavy burden. Good women are willing to carry it for a time, but no one will do it forever.”

          “However I would counter that plenty of women seem to assume that it is their man’s responsibility to keep them happy, and if not queue up the “I’m not haaaaaaaaaaaappy” speech.”

          Every one of us is responsible for our own happiness. Men and women alike, whether in a relationship or not. It is a decision each must make every day.

  3. “Feel free to expand on Outcome Independence in the comments if you have tips or anecdotes to share.”

    Is this girl going to help me write a book?
    Is she going to wash my car for me?
    Is she going to clip coupons?
    Is she going to grill with me?
    Is she going to analyze the newest IMF report?
    Is she going to take a Krav Maga class with me?

    Yeah, I’ve got a lot of shit in my life, and girls take a lot of time. I literally do not have time to invest in any girl who isn’t awesome.

    Also,
    I get checked out maybe twice a day if I am looking good.

    She isn’t special.

  4. Ted,

    A couple of thoughts:

    First of all, I consider myself a realist.

    I get that you consider yourself one, but you’re not quite there yet. You absolutely have to let go of your logic (Not that I consider this an easy task). I am sure you have read DogSquats Part Two of this sermon. Read it again. Sticking to your logic is the same as being confused and upset that water is wet or that the sky is blue. Frankly, you don’t have to like it, but it will behoove you to understand it. You have to stop thinking that if some one did such and such to me, it would really piss me off. We are not talking about you or men here. We are talking about women and we are simply very different.

    It makes no logical sense to me that not caring about the outcome of interaction with my mate would actually make her more attracted to me

    This isn’t right, but I think you know that. I get the sense that you are getting a bit frustrated again and the confusion is coming back. Step back, Ted. Think of women as complimentary to men, not the same. If you don’t care about the outcome of interactions with your mate all the time, she will eventually bail. It’s not that you don’t care about it at all, it’s that there are things in your life that must take precedence over most of your interactions with her. Think about this logically for a second. Go back 100 years. You’re a farmer who must get his crops in or your family will die. What is going to be more important to you? The fact that your wife is talking to you about one of the chickens hurting it’s foot (which, in her, world IS important as she needs to take care of the animal) or getting out the door to get the seed planted before the rain comes? You’ll listen to her, sure. But if she gets in your face about you not caring like she thinks you should are you going to listen and let the seed go or tell her to step out of the way so you can care properly for your family? Deep down we women understand that when you have something more important to do, it may not make us hhaaaapppppy at that moment, but you are looking out for our bests interests. This is where the higher attraction comes from.

    • Stingray – “You absolutely have to let go of your logic (Not that I consider this an easy task).”

      Logic is what I base my entire life on. Simply changing logic is indeed NOT an easy task, especially since there is no real, hard, concrete evidence to go on.

      “Frankly, you don’t have to like it, but it will behoove you to understand it”

      Precisely what I’m trying to do in fact. 😉

      “This isn’t right, but I think you know that. I get the sense that you are getting a bit frustrated again and the confusion is coming back. Step back, Ted.”

      Actually I don’t know it, and that is the problem. I know the world doesn’t work like this, but I mostly prefer to put things into neat little boxes of black and white. I generally avoid subjects that cannot be categorized easily because I just don’t know how to deal with them. The reason I pointed out how socially inept I can be is because social stuff simply cannot be easily categorized and labeled. I chose my hobbies, friends, and career based on my desire for logic and reasoning, but none of this can be dealt with using those types of tools. I spent my life up to now using the “love is magic” method of categorizing relationships. When I didn’t think there was data to see, I had no desire to organize it. Now, there is a ton of data, but I have no way to structure it so I can plow through it, access it, and use it effectively. Partly because the info is vague and unproven, and partly because dealing with people means an ever moving target.

      “it’s not that you don’t care about it at all, it’s that there are things in your life that must take precedence over most of your interactions with her.”

      OK. This right here. Other than my job, what *should* be more important than my SO and my family? Because honestly, the way I think, THEY are the most important, period. The only reason job comes first is because it is my version of planting seed. And this has been a problem since my marriage. I don’t see anything else in my life that is “more important” than the people I love. So, I don’t have much to demonstrate in terms of “more importance” than her.

      “Deep down we women understand that when you have something more important to do, it may not make us hhaaaapppppy at that moment, but you are looking out for our bests interests. This is where the higher attraction comes from.”

      And I have little faith that this is true sadly. I think many/most people are too self-centered and selfish to truly be aware of the fact that the person doing something they dislike may actually be acting in their best interests. Of course, I don’t put much faith in people in general, but to be honest most of the time “people” prove me right. I assure you that I think much more highly of my SO than the average Joe on the street, but she IS still a person, and although I find her to be pretty logical and reasonable in general, she is also a woman and has all those different functions/behavior that bias her reason and logic. Don’t get me wrong, I have my own bias, but I understand my bias pretty well.

      As far as lost goes, not so much. In my “real life” I’m simply keeping quiet, working on my own improvements, and doing my best to stay aware of things from a red pill perspective. I’m actually in a pretty good place compared to the last few years. What you see online is simply my mental struggle to figure this all out. I am putting words to the thought processes in my head, and in a sense using everyone’s feedback to weigh the issues for a way to categorize and assimilate the info. Again, please don’t take what I post as my actual situation. It is my nature to risk asses everything, and I’m simply trying to plan for the worst, so to speak. I know most people think first and deal with consequences later, but nothing frustrates me more than dealing with the fallout of such behavior. I do my best to be prepared for things. If we were geographically close, we could meet for some beers and I’d impress you with my group’s “zombie plan”. LOL.

      • This right here. Other than my job, what *should* be more important than my SO and my family?

        I absolutely think that your family can be your ultimate focus. Your family as a *whole*. That does not put your SO first, it puts your unit first. If your SO wanted something that went against your family are you going to make her haaapppppyyy and give her what what she wants, or are you going to make the decision that is best for your family (which also ultimately includes what is best for her)? Going to your job everyday does put your family unit first, not your SO. It is part of what you need to do to care for them all. They can be the most important thing in your life. That is not the same as putting your SO first. Said in a nutshell, don’t confuse your SO with your family until.

        I think many/most people are too self-centered and selfish to truly be aware of the fact that the person doing something they dislike may actually be acting in their best interests

        Women are not truly aware of this, Ted. It’s hard wired. Let me see if I can explain this more in a way you (as a man) can understand. A man’s ability to stand up to a woman and show his strength and his independence from her is a big part of what women find attractive, yes? Let’s compare that to what a man is hard wired to find attractive. Men find beauty attractive. Does a man have to be self aware to know beauty when he sees it? Does he need to pull out a measuring tape and measure her hip to waist ratio and measure her facial symmetry to know her beautiful or is he simply hard wired to know it when he sees it? It is the same way for women. We don’t need to be self aware to recognize an independent man when we see him. We don’t need to go through a checklist of independent traits with each and every man to figure out if he is dominant or not (This is separate than the checklists so many woman have for their perfect guy. Don’t confuse the two.) We simply recognize it when we see it just like you do with beauty. This is why so many women fall for assholes. One doesn’t need to be self aware to recognize the dominant traits of an asshole (or a good man). One does have to be self aware to tell the difference between the asshole and the good, independent man who will love her.

        So, while she may not be aware that you are ultimately making decisions that are in her best interests, she will recognize that you are a strong, dominate man. Might she pass you a shit test after she is angry that you are not giving her what she wants? Maybe, but who cares. Stand your ground and do right by your family. The more you do that, the fewer shit tests she will lob. It won’t be worth it for her to continued to be shown to be an irrational twit. (I am not saying that your SO is, just using the example).

        As for preparing for the zombie apocalypse, I’m right there with you, Ted. Your logic and reasoning in black and white will get you far. You won’t ever have to worry about this stuff then. It will just come naturally!

        • Makes sense. I really haven’t found myself in a position with my SO that puts me between her “happiness” and what is best for the family. She has children in the house just like I do, and as far as it goes I’ll pat myself on the back and say we’ve done a good job of going the Brady Bunch route. (I would say that dates me, but you already know I’m over the hill…)

          It seems like Yohami and a few others are looking at what I post and thinking I’m actually dealing with this stuff. To be clear, I’m not. The worst I get from my SO is some push back on “leadership” from time to time, and I am fairly sure it is because *I* was on the fence and feeling indecisive for awhile now. I’ve changed that in small ways, and although there is resistance to it, it isn’t huge resistance and might actually be token resistance to test my resolve. I get that, and deserve it for that matter.

          In terms of logic serving me well, it does and it doesn’t. I emulate social skills well, but I fail regularly to understand people’s motivations and completely suck at office politics. I used to believe I was a good judge of people, and I still believe I am great at sussing out how strong someone’s resolve is. But, I now realize that I do not have much empathy, and I’ve made up for it by simply watching people and making assumptions about how they feel based on their actions. (body language, facial changes, tone of voice, etc.) It never occurred to me that some people can actually “feel” what others do, and I have to admit to myself that at best I fake it well. Now that being said, I’m damn good at analytical stuff of course. No surprise I’m in IT. And since I tend to suppress emotional responses, I’m also generally pretty damn good in a crises. I can easily slip into “action mode” and just get whatever needs done with little to no personal trauma, but tend to need some serious decompression time after it’s all over. Luckily I’ve not found myself in many crises situations, but it is also unfortunate in a way because I’m decently equipped to handle it. I tend to view the way my brain works favorably, but it really is a hindrance when it comes to dealing with people. People are just not easily categorized, analyzed, and put to good use like manageable resources. Well, in personal life. I have no problems doing exactly this at work, but it is also why I usually am not more than socially friendly with people I work with. It complicates how I work to know them personally.

          Speaking of… 2PM meeting coming up. Time to put on my “work face” and be social.

    • I have been a visitor to you blog for months and don’t have a problem with your delivery. In this case, it really is simply that the content makes little sense to me. I simply cannot fathom how to keep a bit of emotional detachment from the people I care most about, and OI to me requires a certain level of detachment. If I have to keep her at a distance, even a small one, then I am never truly letting her in. And perhaps that is my error, believing that anyone will ever be able to fully know and understand me. I want a mate that knows me so well that these games and tricks aren’t necessary, but more and more it simply appears that it can never be. And that means the closest I will ever feel to another human being is the connection I have with family. There is certainly love, but I don’t feel like there is much understanding there.

      • OI for family is one thing. OI for a possible future Gf is another. What I try/want to stress is a prospective gf is auditioning for your commitment.

        OI isn’t about detachment, it’s about keeping in “code yellow” as the host of this blog states.

        And personally I NEVER align my gf’s feelings with my family until she proved she deserves that privilege.

        Letting a woman in is fine, learning to screen the right women is another thing.

        See my mist recent post to get that wired.

        • Makes sense. My particular situation is a little more complex. I’m not married, but I’ve been living with my SO for two years (we got together pre-red pill) with her and my children. So although we are not married, I’m essentially playing “married game” at home. It is confusing because most ‘sphere sites are either directed toward the young single guy out in the market, or spitting fire and brimstone about how bad marriage is. Athol is great, and he has helped me a lot privately, but his blog and posts seem to be directed mostly at the still clueless blue pill guys. Surely I glean plenty of useful knowledge, but I’m not in a shitty marriage trying to fix things. I’m in a great, stable relationship while being gun shy from a previous divorce trying to keep things great and stable. It sounds like such a simple task, and it would be if I wasn’t so completely unsure of myself at this point.

          I’ve got the “inner game” changes going strong, and I’m happy with the progress I’m making. I feel better, look better, and act better. But at the same time, I feel a bit like a nutty conspiracy theorist. Since taking the red pill, I worry about shit test from all directions, question women’s motivations when asking me for things, and generally feel like I’ve just been shown that the world IS indeed run by aliens that are simply keeping us busy while they plan for a full scale invasion. (OK I’m not that paranoid, but I’m sure you get my drift.)

          I’ll hop on over to your “house” after my next meeting. I hate when work gets in the way of life…

  5. Listen, worrying about the future is natural… without some of that worry, we’d all be screwed over on a daily basis. However, worrying for the sake of worrying, an inability to say, “What the fuck, over?” is just typical Type A personality crap that gets you a heart attack at age 42 and ulcers that bleed. Emotional detachment does not mean you cannot love someone with all your heart, it means you MUST keep a small portion of yourself in total selfish lockdown. That portion of your soul is YOURS and can never be given away to anyone, except perhaps your own children.

    The point here is that outcome independent is based upon the knowledge that your life revolves around you. Make it revolve around someone else, ANYONE else, and you’re guaranteeing an unhappy life. Rumor has it that Romeo and Juliet had an unfortunate outcome dependence.

    Total, unselfish and complete love for a woman may be a goal, but for the rest of the world, we’ll deal with the reality that no human is perfect. Your happiness is your own responsibilty, and blaming someone else for your unhappy life is just not going to work. I believe the psychs have a term for it: co-dependent behavior. Basing your own happy level on making someone else happy might work short term, we used to call that being a ‘giver’. Problem is, when that giver meets a ‘taker’ who bases their happiness on what others can give them.

    Outcome independence: Figuring out your own Path in life, then following it, regardless of what any other person says. Place that at your core, understanding that it may cause you problems with many issues, including women. Being true to yourself is far more important than jobs, money or love. And if you meet someone whose Path seems to follow yours, well, that’s just gravy on top of the taters. We all make mistakes. Not learning from them is a much bigger mistake.

    The Navy Corpsman

    • “Your happiness is your own responsibilty, and blaming someone else for your unhappy life is just not going to work.”

      It amazes me that so many people still don’t understand this. You are “right on” with this one NC.

      “Outcome independence: Figuring out your own Path in life, then following it, regardless of what any other person says. Place that at your core, understanding that it may cause you problems with many issues, including women.”

      Plan on being called “selfish” but do it anyway. It IS the only way to be true to oneself.

      “We all make mistakes. Not learning from them is a much bigger mistake”

      Exactly right!
      .

  6. I tried the push ups thing today. I just got dumped for another guy and I’m so bitter and angry that I can’t stop thinking of revenge and making speeches and humiliating her. But I don’t think I can keep up with what could be a 1000 pushups a day! Anyone else trying this?

    Also, what if I adapt this mindset, but never get a girlfriend? It seems wonderfully zen, but its a tough leap to make for me!

    The good think about being dumped is the red pill deal. I’m almost 40 and this other side of relationships was new to me. Kind of depressing…

    • Let me be the first to offer you a hearty Congratulations, Brother! Seriously – you’re at the beginning of what could ultimately be the best journey of your life. You’re in pain right now, I know…believe me, I know. Here’s the good news – you’re going to be doing better with women than you ever have 6 months from now, and in 2 years you’re going to be so goddamned happy you can barely stand it.

      Feel free to substitute deep knee bends/lunges (make sure you’re using proper form) and jumping jacks for some push ups. Keep the ratio equal. Depending on what study you read, exercise is at least as effective as SSRIs for mild depression.

      You know what else? That woman who just made a bad choice in men is not just shooting herself in the foot – she’s ripping through a belt of 7.62mm NATO at the maximum cyclic rate. She’s inadvertently made you a better man – one that will soon be out of her league. You’re using the pain she inflicted as fuel to go somewhere – you’re seeking knowledge, and her memory is improving your body.

      Don’t even talk to her. Delete your Facebook, or at least block her. No email, texts – nothing. Pretend she’s dead. If you run into her in 6 or 8 months, looking sharp, in shape, and confidence shimmering off you like a mirage over desert sands – she’s going to cry. Seriously – her heart will sink, and she’ll get nervous and a little sick to her stomach. You’ll chat for a minute or two, then you’ll head off to meet the hotter woman you’ve been banging, or go to the range, or your Level 2 Krav Maga test, or something else you’ve gotten in to. She’ll go home and hate every guy she’s ever been with except for you. She’ll cry so hard she pukes, and her very bones will ache with regret.

      You know how you’ll feel about her?

      Maybe a little pity.

      It’s nice.

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